Curse

Antheus · Nov 21, 2006, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Heroes will never learn how to kite properly, or how to handle Shiro. PUGs will always be a better choice. I know some disagree, but heroes will do the same stupid thing over and over and over.

This mission isn't about "I win" skill. SV will not make you win. Nor will any other skill. When people say bring SV gg, they leave out everything else.

In order to pass this mission, you need to know:
- how to kite
- how to use protection, not only healing
- how to spike heal
- how to spread out
- understand hexes, conditions, removal and spreading of those
- prioritize targets (shrines vs. shiro)

Anyone who is comfortable with these concepts (most pvpers will be), will laugh at the difficulty of this mission. But a nuker, who is used to simply standing in center of mobs casting two 5 sec MS will suddenly find this mission impossible.

Waiting there, for mission to change is unproductive. Go back a bit, do a quest or two, take a break, try a new build, pvp a bit. But don't get stuck there for a month, thinking that is the only thing left for you to do.

This mission requires you to understand some of the advanced gameplay concepts. The moment you grasp them, mission is a walk in the park.

Antheus · Nov 21, 2006, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaMouse

Heres my rant. Shiro is way too powerful in this mission. My main character is a nuker and I have him at Lightbringer lvl 4 so most of the enemies fall to my feet pretty easy. And then there is Shiromocking me and just running away from everything that I throw at him. Not oly does this po me to no end but I have been in 4 real good teams and we have cleared out everything and activated the 5 gods but shiro stills takes us out every time. He needs to be toned down the chalenge is too great even when you have a group with 2 Nukers in it. If Shiro wouldnt kite everytime you fart at him then it would be better, as it is the difficulty is way off the scale. Thi needs fixed.

Mega Mouse

I hope you're not using Meteor Storm against Shiro. Or have 2 echo meteor storm nukers for this mission.

5 second cast, and delayed AoE effect is the worst possible thing against a single teleporting target.

As Ele, go earth, with a few other skills. Bring ward against melee, ward against foes, blurred vision, lightning attacks, blinding, knockdowns, ...

But forget meteor storm, or fire in general.

Phades · Nov 21, 2006, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orinn

And it's aggravating. Heros don't stay out of melee, so IO gets them all. The casters, the ranger, everyone. I've never so much wanted to literally put my fist through the monitor.

It can be beaten with all heros and henchmen with the human player merely running around capping the shrines. Furthermore it can be beaten with mostly melee range henchmen as well. Truthfully, you can go through the majority of the game faster with the more physical damage dealers anyway.

I guess people just do not read skill descriptions or understand game mechanics.

Mistress Mindbender · Nov 21, 2006, 04:06 PM // 16:06

If anything that mission is way too easy.

They should give shiro his ability to banish people into the margonites in the bonus areas and meditation of the reaper.

The lich should summon titans like he did in prophecies.

The last mission was a real disapointment, at least make the gates of madness be an accomplishment.

Omega X · Nov 21, 2006, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mistress Mindbender

If anything that mission is way too easy.

They should give shiro his ability to banish people into the margonites in the bonus areas and meditation of the reaper.

The lich should summon titans like he did in prophecies.

The last mission was a real disapointment, at least make the gates of madness be an accomplishment.

Shiro isn't a Reaper anymore(See the end of Factions), so no Meditation Of Reaper or banishment.

The Lich doesn't have the scepter and the Ddoor of Komalie is closed(See the end of Prophecies) so no Titans.

They could have gave them new powers but that defeats the purpose. The 2 are supposed to be weaker because their power advantage is gone.

MaglorD · Nov 22, 2006, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Heroes will never learn how to kite properly, or how to handle Shiro. PUGs will always be a better choice. I know some disagree, but heroes will do the same stupid thing over and over and over.

I just completed NF with my #6 character, an Rt, with heroes and henchies. As usual, I completed the whole of NF with heroes and henchies. All torment missions were completed successfully first time.

All I can say is heroes/henchies are pretty good.

ekamdu · Nov 22, 2006, 01:07 AM // 01:07

shiro is easy, just be smart for a moment...

owned him with my paragon: he seemed to hate me so i started running around whilst he was following me continiously, and the rest just killed him easily (i used wild throw to stop that bs of him)

owned him with necromancer: SS, reckless haste, insidious parasite, he's a toy for me then

every time he attacks he takes several 100's of damage

owned him with warrior: Riposte, Deadly Riposte, Wild Blow, and some tactics skills to heal myself

seriously, though shiro is 20x harder than lich, its still rather easy to do... as long as you have a team that can think normally and know what to use against shiro....

MaglorD · Nov 22, 2006, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by ekamdu

seriously, though shiro is 20x harder than lich, its still rather easy to do... as long as you have a team that can think normally and know what to use against shiro....

Nah he's not 20x harder than lich. They aren't that different in difficulty. Just that Shiro specialises in melee whereas the lich is a caster.

MaglorD · Nov 22, 2006, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mistress Mindbender

If anything that mission is way too easy.

They should give shiro his ability to banish people into the margonites in the bonus areas and meditation of the reaper.

The lich should summon titans like he did in prophecies.

The last mission was a real disapointment, at least make the gates of madness be an accomplishment.

All missions are easy once you know the tricks to handling them. If you find missions too easy, try going in with less members in your team.

Evilsod · Nov 22, 2006, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Spoil Victor does make him a bit of a wimp. As sad as it may be he only killed 1 person when i fought him with a team of heros/hench. Me..... twice.... thats what you get for standing in front of him after flagging hench back, lol.

Annoying though that Impossible Odds removes all hexes... just means you have to time it instead, but he definatly dies against 4 Rangers. I still need the bonus though.

Antheus · Nov 22, 2006, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Well, just got masters on ele with pug.

Fireball, Immolate, Rodgort's invocation, Glowing Gaze, Meteor Storm, Ward Against melee, Ward against Foes, Elemental Attunement

Max fire, 9 or 10 earth.

Drop wards around shiro whenever you can, the first 4 spells against him when you have time. MS of course doesn't do much.

Burning didn't seem to be a problem, or if he did spread it, it didn't hurt the group.

Monks had aegis, warrior was the riposte stance tank, we had a mesmer as well. The rest I don't know. As always, everyone was kiting like crazy.

They key here is to make shiro miss a lot, cutting down damage. This build also works well for the rest of the mission.

Antheus · Nov 22, 2006, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaglorD

I just completed NF with my #6 character, an Rt, with heroes and henchies. As usual, I completed the whole of NF with heroes and henchies. All torment missions were completed successfully first time.

All I can say is heroes/henchies are pretty good.

You could contribute to the thread, and list the heroes you used, the skills, how you place them, what were the problems, what was your build. This way, others would benefit from your experience.

But yea, props, gratz, or something.

Antheus · Nov 22, 2006, 02:47 AM // 02:47

Another advice for the rare few trying to PUG this.

While looking for groups, I saw horrors like 4 dervishes, 3 paragons, and a necro. If anyone enters mission like that, you will fail. And there were several groups like this.

Make sure your group is semi-balanced. 2 monks, 1 or 2 melee, the rest is split among damage dealers and hexes.

Ask your monks to bring Aegis. One is good, two are better. Ask them to bring prot spirit.
Mesmers work perfectly for this mission. Let them spec in anti-melee. Same goes for Necros. MM helps with first part, but isn't needed. Curses or blood both work. Spoil Victor, Spiteful Spirit, reckless haste, price of failure, anything that works against melee will help a lot. None of them are necessary.
For melee, stance tanks works, if they know how to tank. Wild ... on any class is good and will help. Apparently, You're all Alone works as well. Shiro spreading those conditions won't cause too much harm.

But do ensure your group has at least a moderate chance, rather that trying with builds that will not work.

Galafan_Locke · Nov 22, 2006, 02:58 AM // 02:58

I loved the mission, passed it with Koss, Margit, Jin, 2 healer henchies, 1 dervish henchy, warrior henchy, and me, a Paragon with support chants/echoes/shouts and no spear mastery at all. I'd say there's lots of ways to beat it, especially considering you don't need a mesmer or necro to do it quickly. You just need to think about it. The challenge of Nytefall isn't understanding how 2 class combos and 8 skills fit together in a character, but rather 8 class combos and 32 skills working together for maximum efficiency.

I was, however, dissapointed at how easy the final mission was in comparison

Lord Sasuke · Nov 22, 2006, 03:17 AM // 03:17

This mission is easy, i tried 2 times with only hench/heros and beat them twice, i did it the 2nd time to get bonus because the 1st time i just did the mission. Both times it took me like 1 min to kill shiro and 1 min to kill lich.

I'm a D/W so dervish shouldn't have a problem on doing this mission.
I like this mission because its fun and easy. Heroes/Hench FTW

Lania Elderfire · Nov 22, 2006, 04:24 AM // 04:24

You need pugs on this mission or do some micro-management with the heros skills and flagging them to force them to kite. I don't see why people think this mission is "FUN". I find it boring as hell! It's very repetative, especially when it gets to the portals. Then after that the Lich is a complete joke... I mean his skills are completely useless. A team of retarded noobs can beat him in less than 1 minute.

Shiro on the other hands has IO. IO can take out an unsuspecting party in less than 15 seconds and heals him plenty when he uses battle scars with it. Mechanically I think Shiro is flawed. IO is a skill that can be exploited, and it's a skill that doesn't make sence in a mechanical way. A good necro with SV can take advantage of it, and his damage output is a joke w/o IO.

So it's really easy to cap shrines and ignore shiro because he's a whimp w/o the use of IO.... which makes the bonus rediculously easy.

I think Shiro's damage output should be enhanced, his HP and armor increased, and take IO out. That way capping shrines will be much harder.

Oh and speaking of boring missions..... WTF IS UP WITH THE LAST MISSION!!!!!!!!!!!. THAT IS THE MOST BORING MISSION EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

MaglorD · Nov 22, 2006, 04:48 AM // 04:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lania Elderfire

You need pugs on this mission or do some micro-management with the heros skills and flagging them to force them to kite. I don't see why people think this mission is "FUN". I find it boring as hell! It's very repetative, especially when it gets to the portals. Then after that the Lich is a complete joke... I mean his skills are completely useless. A team of retarded noobs can beat him in less than 1 minute.

Shiro on the other hands has IO. IO can take out an unsuspecting party in less than 15 seconds and heals him plenty when he uses battle scars with it. Mechanically I think Shiro is flawed. IO is a skill that can be exploited, and it's a skill that doesn't make sence in a mechanical way. A good necro with SV can take advantage of it, and his damage output is a joke w/o IO.

So it's really easy to cap shrines and ignore shiro because he's a whimp w/o the use of IO.... which makes the bonus rediculously easy.

I think Shiro's damage output should be enhanced, his HP and armor increased, and take IO out. That way capping shrines will be much harder.

Oh and speaking of boring missions..... WTF IS UP WITH THE LAST MISSION!!!!!!!!!!!. THAT IS THE MOST BORING MISSION EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

Shiro can kill most party members easily without the monk/paragon or whoever constantly healing them. I don't think it's true at all his attacks cause no damage without IO. He damage output is comparable to any other melee boss even without IO.

So I think IO adds just that extra touch of lethality for the unsuspecting to an otherwise typical melee boss.

kazjun · Nov 22, 2006, 04:49 AM // 04:49

Finished him as a sword warrior, tahlkora as prot monk, whispers as blood/empathy, olias as curses, devona, mhenlo, khim, herta.

Yeah, he does pathetic damage. He's really just an assassin with no real brain or skills if you put him against a real warrior, be it yourself or koss. All he's got is IO, and that is easily outhealed if you have even two monks, let alone three. What gets most groups I think, is that they melee dogpile him at the end then they all got IOed and the monks can't keep up. If you have only one tanking him, after the prot monk, the heal monks have no problem keeping the tank alive. The rest is just how long it takes for him to die.

Kuchiki Akio · Nov 22, 2006, 05:26 AM // 05:26

This mission is fun ! I dunno how u guys did it, but i did it with my guildies and we had more trouble killing the portal wraith's area than shiro haha.

In fact, we killed shiro first instead of lich.

Anyway heres my build which i used to "tank" shiro. I'm a....war/mes ^__^

Dolyak Signet(use it only when he's fixed on you and your members are away from him but within cast range),physical resist,"grenth balance",endure pain.

The rest is up to ur creativity.
Grenth balance makes for a very important heal/dmg when he does impossbile odds on you. Abeit, you could run, but its better to just stand there and take some hits while your team kills him or just let shiro "kill himself".

Only use endure pain when he's down to near death situation(1/4 or less hp), it'll last you enough long enough to take impossible odds and give time for monk to heal.

Important players with some key skills.

1 tank(Try out my recommended build),
1 nec (spiteful,reckless haste),
1 ele/mes (wards against melee,blind(who cares if he spreads, its not as if lvl 20s can do any decent physical dps to him),Spirit Of failure.
The rest of the team is up to you.

We didnt have spoil victor

We killed shiro first and then lich.

Take care and good luck.

rabwatt · Nov 22, 2006, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Heres a novel idea to solo Shiro...

Everybody but an assassin stand outside

Assassin use enduring toxin and just keep running in circles while he chases you.
You might need some speed buffs but the assassin got plenty.
It may take a while... but quicker than restarting the mission

I havent tried it so it may be flawed